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TataLebuj
Monday, 17th January 2005, 12:28
Howdy all,

Yesterday RL tried something a little different. Everyone who logged in was asked to recert to gain the Mosquito (Mossie) aircraft. We then used the Mossie to transport ourselves from one battle to the next. We had very successful moments and we had some utter failures, but overall I think most people had a positive reaction to the change-up.

Now I know that RL has been known for its massive Galaxy drops and resecures, and I also know that many of you have mentioned a certain "VC-style" to the idea of using Mossie's. But I would like to have a discussion about this with everyone giving their own impression.

First lets look at the main differences between the two styles of transport.

Galaxy

PRO's

Allows the use of heavier fighting equipment - REXO/MAX units.
Allows everyone to drop simultaneously without much hassle.
Allows everyone to regroup effectively.
Allows a light vehicle to be brought along. Especially useful for Ant runs.
CON's


Requires a DSC or recall to Sanct.
Only 3 gunner positions.
Galaxy is a slower transport that is easily destroyed by 3 or more enemy aircraft.
Requires someone to have the cert that is really only useful with more then 5 people on. The Liberator is a good aircraft, but I don't believe it is worth the 3 certs alone.

Mosquito

PRO's

Fast transport.
Does not require a techplant or DCS.
Agile enough to avoid most attacks.
Each person has an effective weapon.
Gives each person a sense of control.

CON'S


Requires more discipline to use effectively.
Can not use heavy armor, only heavy weapons.
Can easily be stopped by a vigilant enemy. (EG: Multiple max units at the backdoor of base or multiple vehicles awaiting us - similar problem with galaxy, but since you have heavier armor you still might be successful with the gal.)
(Please post more Pro's or Con's if you can think of any)

This is how I see the two different playstyles, with a Galaxy we must issue a recall order or a Decon order to a previously bound DSC. Or we must ask one of our players to leave combat and head back to the sanc/dsc on his own to bring us back transport. If we do recall then we must load at least two more maps before getting to target, and I know that with my computer the more maps I load the more likely I will crash. This is the main reason I don't like galaxy's for transport. Being leashed to either recalling or going out of our way to bind at a DSC, and then the slow drive back.

The hardest part with the Mosquito's is getting the coordination down. We started to get it late yesterday, but its still a new idea and therefore we can't expect to be experts at it yet. Also, the Mossie-style requires an ACTIVE Squad leader. The SL must set and use WP's constantly, it is what keeps the group together. And if we are not dropping together, then its pointless.

In my opinion, having 10 agile's with a range of weapons (HA/SA/AV) should always allow us to force our way into a base and get to an equipment terminal.

Here's is definitely one down side to this tactic - We need to have more Adv. Hackers around. Because without them, we lose the ability to have heavy gear. And then we find ourselves dropping on towers and foot-zerging to a base. Riskque to say the least.

Okay, I think I've droned on and on enough, please give your opinion in this matter. I know that I am very biased, as this +WAS+ the style used by my former Outfit, and they did make it rather famously known on the NC werner. But it was a tactic that was useful and proven to be effective.

Cheers,

Visionaire
Monday, 17th January 2005, 12:40
I'm all up for mozzies. Haven't played much lately due to WoW though. Already got adv. hack and the mozzie cert.

FuSs
Monday, 17th January 2005, 13:02
With mosquitos we safe a lot of time we can spend on the resecure.
We can start from every base and we can either drop or blow the enemy ams first if no AA is present.
Mosquitos are way more flexible than Galaxies.

Im all for Mosquitos, the most deadliest vehicle in the whole game.

Faster, deadlier, more fragile ;)

justinalot
Monday, 17th January 2005, 13:06
I posted in other forum

Basically I would like to try a mixture

Gal and 2 MAxs rest as Mossies

Combined hit on Base's while gal is at sanc or DSC mossies clean up a tower and merge with Gal.

I think this could work very well.

Brask
Monday, 17th January 2005, 13:12
I'm also in favour of Mossie/Reaver.

Adv. Hacker with AMS cert can also drop over the veh term and get AMS out.

@Justin, imo I don't think having a Gal only for 2 MAX is really worth it, instead, why not just hack a term when you are inside and all Max up?

Echor
Monday, 17th January 2005, 13:39
Howdy all,

Yesterday RL tried something a little different. Everyone who logged in was asked to recert to gain the Mosquito (Mossie) aircraft. We then used the Mossie to transport ourselves from one battle to the next. We had very successful moments and we had some utter failures, but overall I think most people had a positive reaction to the change-up.
There was the fun of novelty :)


Now I know that RL has been known for its massive Galaxy drops and resecures, and I also know that many of you have mentioned a certain "VC-style" to the idea of using Mossie's. But I would like to have a discussion about this with everyone giving their own impression.
Style is far more important than it at first might appear. As you say RL is known for its Galaxy drops, VC was known for its mosquitos. It will be interesting to see how many people who have joined us because of how we play want to change the way we play?


First lets look at the main differences between the two styles of transport.

Galaxy

PRO's

Allows the use of heavier fighting equipment - REXO/MAX units.
Allows everyone to drop simultaneously without much hassle.
Allows everyone to regroup effectively.
Allows a light vehicle to be brought along. Especially useful for Ant runs.
CON's


Requires a DSC or recall to Sanct.
Only 3 gunner positions.
Galaxy is a slower transport that is easily destroyed by 3 or more enemy aircraft.
Requires someone to have the cert that is really only useful with more then 5 people on. The Liberator is a good aircraft, but I don't believe it is worth the 3 certs alone.

Mosquito

PRO's

Fast transport.
Does not require a techplant or DCS.
Agile enough to avoid most attacks.
Each person has an effective weapon.
Gives each person a sense of control.

CON'S


Requires more discipline to use effectively.
Can not use heavy armor, only heavy weapons.
Can easily be stopped by a vigilant enemy. (EG: Multiple max units at the backdoor of base or multiple vehicles awaiting us - similar problem with galaxy, but since you have heavier armor you still might be successful with the gal.)
(Please post more Pro's or Con's if you can think of any)
Like most things in this game, a simple list of Pros and Cons rarely assesses the true power or weakness, its more of a sales pitch trying to present more pros to cons? For single players, or just a few players mosquitos will probably rule, for the occasion when you really really need that 10lb hammer they fail

I think what needs to be done is to try it out? if it works, point is proven, if it fails rethink time. All this debating about how to do stuff never uncovers what actually happens? I've got a hunch that Justin might be on to a good idea with his hybrid idea though.

justinalot
Monday, 17th January 2005, 13:53
I'm also in favour of Mossie/Reaver.

Adv. Hacker with AMS cert can also drop over the veh term and get AMS out.

@Justin, imo I don't think having a Gal only for 2 MAX is really worth it, instead, why not just hack a term when you are inside and all Max up?

Problem with the hack a term feature is that no all of the maxs have ADV hack.

While playing yesterday the call for ADV hackers was probably the most said thing in PS.

I will drop engineer and something else for ADV hack if you like but I feel that having ADV med already is a good enough

If we need more then I will do it.

One thing for the people who are commenting here and have not been playing the game of late, can you log on for a session as then you can further understand where this post is comming from. The RL you knew and I knew of old is not what it was.

Adelheit
Monday, 17th January 2005, 15:08
I wasnt online during the Mossi Action ... but from justins vid i'm all up for Mossies!

tbh, i found myself looging off too many times because of Gal-action. For me, Galaxy means sitting on my butt for 5-10mins just to die in 20seks, rinse, repeat .. In fact, from my experience at least 75% of all GalDrops are either wasted because there is no resistance .. or the whole sq. ist dead within 20seks.

So, to make a long story short ... Mossy 4tw! ;) ;)

justinalot
Monday, 17th January 2005, 15:21
One thing about Mossie's ADE is that it too can involve the same thing as sometimes we drop on a tower take it and then have to wait 5 mins for another mossie

Brask
Monday, 17th January 2005, 15:29
Justin, my post wasn't critism...

NTT
Monday, 17th January 2005, 16:51
Mossies are great for attracting more ppl to the outfit.
There where a few OOOWWWWWSSSS from the NC when we bailed on to bases (That was cool ).

Mossies arn't so great with bases at more than yellow alert ,we just dont pack a large enough punch Thats why u never saw VC anywhere near a zerg.

Justins idear of having abit of both worlds would work best.

If we need to blow a gen we can wizz up to the gen in our mossies and hack a term, job done nice and quick.

We talk about supporting the zerg, we can do that well with the mozzies for taking out a lone BFR or a few vercs but u can't really do anymore than that?.

Gal drops are what where good at and we would be stupid not to still use them and really support the zerg.

I'm also concered about losing players (if we went full mossie ) as it's not everyones playing style.

TataLebuj
Monday, 17th January 2005, 17:04
I'm also concered about losing players (if we went full mossie ) as it's not everyones playing style.

This is the point that I don't get. Until I joined VC I never really flew in a mossie. And I'm still no ACE at it, but its a weapon like any other. You just have to use it to become more comfortable with it. I don't say this to anyone specifically, but some of the previous posts have mentioned "Older RL" players feeling left out or not approving of using Mossie's as a viable transport.

I just don't understand that point, and would love for someone to explain it to me.

Also, I do like the idea of switching it up. I agree that for an Amp station under a yellow (or greater) alert Mossies wouldn't work. You need the max suits. And I also agree that VC never went where the zerg went, we tried to keep the blue continents blue by being a rapid response force. And from yesterday's example, we can still do that. I was amazed at how well we did on Hossin and on Ceryshen. In both cases we helped boot the beginings of a zerg.

Anyway, I really do want to understand what is it about Mossies' that some people don't like.

Cheers,

Porthos
Monday, 17th January 2005, 17:27
I'm for the new mossie tactic but it should be combined with the "old fashioned" gal drop when the situation asks for it.

I dont know if the ppl yesterday remember me saying: "Justin, me and my bro are of for some zerging/assisting the zerg, we're bored of lone cc/gen holding"?
Then not long after that, we switched to the mossie thing and suddenly we were in the center of lots of action but not in the zerg so it was playable for everyone. I wasnt bored anymore till i logged at 1.30gmt.
And about the wait timer for your next mossie: we grouped up, head for the target, fought and by the time we needed to mossie up again our timer was expired. Just have to be carefull at picking targets, e.g. not using a mossie to drop a tower next to the base if the tower if surrounded by millions of NC.

So my opinion is: Use the mossie tactic but use the Gal when its needed, just look from situation to situation. (u're not gonna use a JH in the open field are ya, u'll pick the gauss then...)

Flufball
Monday, 17th January 2005, 17:33
Well, I'm planning on re-subbing to PS as soon as I get the money, and tbh, I realy realy don't like mossies, I can't fly them, and they don't suit my play-style, as everything I do relise more on close squad drops (I = Med/Eng) from gals, ok, so its possible to do this with mossies, however, we lose a large part of our potentioal to do damage by losing max's/rexo.

Oh, and I hate mossies :P I don't like flying any of the aircraft on PS....

FuSs
Monday, 17th January 2005, 19:58
why dont we try out mosqs as our main transport for the next 2 weeks and if we like it we can still perform some occassional special events like vanguard night and so on.

and if the situation requires a heavy drop we can still log on a gal pilot and do a gal drop.

mosquitos in general are just more versatile.

moose
Monday, 17th January 2005, 20:11
flufball raised a good point. with mossies we just dont pack enough punch without our maxes or rexo whores if hot dropping with em. mozzies are the best vehicle in the game as shy said cos they versatile, fast and in the right hands the most deadly vehicle in the game.

many of us will object to using mozzies as they find it difficult to fly them but all i can suggest is just keep practising - its worth it in the end. one good tactic i could suggest if u lot are doin mozzie action is place a waypoint near a dropship centre or air tower as a regroup point if the planes get split up, otherwise u get picked off quick out there on ur own. another tip is have 2 designated squadron leaders up ahead of main formation to scout out potential targets - most enemies will flee at the sight of 12 mozzies, not 2. try it out, it works very well with large numbers of aircraft.

TataLebuj
Monday, 17th January 2005, 21:44
flufball raised a good point. with mossies we just dont pack enough punch without our maxes or rexo whores if hot dropping with em.

See, I think it depends on what you define as "Punch". If we use the 14 - 20 guys that we have online each night as our fist, then I think that "Punch" is enough to carry us through any defense to an equipment terminal.

Biggest downfalls so far is the fact that we lack Adv. Hackers. And that we are trying to use Mossie's for everything. I think I am at fault for that, I (and any SL) needs to look at the target and then pick which way is going to be the best. One easy indicator is the alert. Anything more then a Yellow Alert, and we need the Gal.


mozzies are the best vehicle in the game as shy said cos they versatile, fast and in the right hands the most deadly vehicle in the game.

Yep, and so far it is proving effective. We just need to look at the targets and think for a moment.


many of us will object to using mozzies as they find it difficult to fly them but all i can suggest is just keep practising - its worth it in the end. one good tactic i could suggest if u lot are doin mozzie action is place a waypoint near a dropship centre or air tower as a regroup point if the planes get split up, otherwise u get picked off quick out there on ur own. another tip is have 2 designated squadron leaders up ahead of main formation to scout out potential targets - most enemies will flee at the sight of 12 mozzies, not 2. try it out, it works very well with large numbers of aircraft.

I like the idea, we'll need to try it and see! Here's the basics though, in case anyone missed our "Practice" session tonight :

1.) SL chooses tower/base (at a base drop, SL must know whether its an LLU or not and which entrance they want to drop at). And marks it with a WP, SL must also mark the Regroup point with a WP. We should never drop a tower unless we have clearly defined Start and End point. This will ensure that the players that are not familiar (or don't like) flying Mossies can easily adapt.

NOTE : At any Regroup spot all mossies should fly to flight ceiling. This will ensure we do not get caught up with any ground fighting, we need to be focused on our next attack not what's happening at the regroup spot. If AA appears and can engage us at our regroup spot, SL should move the group somewhere else for regroup.

2.) Player who will EMP must be chosen before leaving for the target.

3.) Player who will hack the door/cc/terminal (must be an Adv. Hacker for terminal) must be chosen before leaving for the target. Adv. Hacker always does this, unless one is not online.

4.) SL gives the "V-T-W" commnd to the EMP and Hacker. They both fly to flight ceiling and AB toward target. SL waits a few seconds and then gives the "V-T-W" command to the group and everyone flies to flight ceiling and AB's to target.

5.) As EMP drops he will determine if the EMP is necessary. He will also be responsible for calling out which door is to be hacked.

6.) Hacker drops at specified door and starts to open it.

7.) By the time the other Mossies all arrive the door should be hacked and everyone will just RUSH TO THE CC (for tower) RUSH TO THE SPAWNS/NEAREST EQUIP TERM (for base). Don't worry about enemies approaching from the rear at a base, get to the spawns and get your max/rexo. Then kill the enemies.


Well, 7 basic steps to a successful mossie HD.

Cheers,

Visionaire
Tuesday, 18th January 2005, 09:32
Don't have to be a good mozzie pilot to use the blased things, I've had mozzie for at least ½ year. :o Hardly ever use it for dogfights, but it's very handy for transportation, general killing of infantry and twr drops.

Hincey
Tuesday, 18th January 2005, 10:10
5.) As EMP drops he will determine if the EMP is necessary. He will also be responsible for calling out which door is to be hacked.

6.) Hacker drops at specified door and starts to open it.



Cheers,

/agree, but.....

You should AWAYS (on a twr and unless it is impossible) hack what is known as the 'safe door'. I.E. the door furthest away from the stairs on the top of the twr, there is a pic on the last forums bout it but cant find it atm will look again in a sec

justinalot
Wednesday, 19th January 2005, 13:21
Last night Mossie drops not working once again.

People very slow to react and we got owned inside the base.

1 thing I think we need to do for base resecure is try to lure the NME outside once they are outside we all converge on the BD CC and drop then we hit them unaware.

Main Problem for us is MAXS we just get killed straight away and even if some do make it alive there is no chance for them.

I would like to try GAL drops tonight combined with MOSSIE.

Main problem we have at moment is numbers against us.

We do well when we are ready Ishunder was cool but we never kicked them out of the bases.

Need to concentrate on positions. inside the base

Wheres Niko and REB when you need them ;)

Shanks
Wednesday, 19th January 2005, 16:08
I have a little input on this discussion to offer.

When I was in a certain outfit we were rapid response unit, similiar to VC, and Mossie was one vehicle that was necessary.

With a full platoon of mossies, you do need one leader, lots of patience and people need to be organised and quick to respond.

I have used WP's as meeting places, for instance SL will set up a WP in the middle of nowhere for eeryone to meet with mossie's, target will be announced, for isntance gold squad hit backdoor and go for spawns, indigo squad go for gen and orange squad hit CC... but then that only worked when we had near 30 people on..

I agree general issues are what power you can pack..

In a Gal its harder hitting, you have Max's, you have Rexo's. In a mossie its more of the surprise and speed element - although everyone is in lighter armour.

Also suppose its the weaponry that makes a difference, as VS we had Lashers in Agile, 3 lasher users could spam a whole corridor and take down 3 max's with ease. As NC, you at least require AV to be able to do that, so mossie dropping is very different when coming up against the more hard hitting infantry.

I always use Mossie anyway, I require the option of flexibilty of where I can go. I can scout areas, air fight, kill infantry and take down deployables with ease. (although im a crap dog fighter!).. but you get the meaning of what I am saying.

Many mossies are very effecient even against the hardest of vehicles, we showed that yesterday when on Searhus - we had about 6 mossies and we made easy work of most vehciles trying to attack us, I thought it worked well, although the speed of getting everyone sorted can only improve and get better.

If I had to make a choice between the 2 I would say mossie, but I would like to see it mixed up, I like RL gal drops, you guys seem to be very organised with them, they are hard hitting and most enemy we encounter struggle against you guys.
And I know what its like being on the receiving end remember!!

Keep them both, have full gals for the drops with a few mossie keeping an eye on troops outside and giving reports of anything incoming, plus if push comes to the shove, then troops can drop out of mossie to assist...

Mind saying that, each fight always turns out differently!

Anyway hope that makes sense....