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justinalot
Friday, 21st January 2005, 09:32
Last night perhaps it was just me but I could not get it together and we just got crapped on apart from a couple of things.

One thing I have Noticed is the VS seem to be copying our Mossie Tactic, did anyone notice on Ceryshen?

The TR ROXO and Co can totally deal with us when we drop as Mossies.

I think we need to mix up our game style a bit more, I know its hard as we dont have many galaxy pilots now.

I have tried the ground assault and it just does not work unless we have loads.

I have an idea I would like to put to you.

Taking a Base and open up Cont.

We drop in a Galaxy we hack out as many vehicles as possible and put them in the courtyard.

We then defend from the outside of the base, with AA and perhaps a skygaurd in the corner the NME will be so busy trying to kill our vehicles that we will be able to pick them off in theory.

Once Vehicles destroyed we pull back to the CC with the rest of the troops.

I will try tonight perhaps, its got to be worth a try.

Base Assault.

I would like us to all try a MAX charge for the week.

I have recerted splatter MAX and I think we could really help the NC by running MAX charges for a trial. You know what I mean we just barge right in full speed, head to spwns not sure if this is RL playing style but it can be fun. (Especially when you run past the troops at the back door saying v.v.w v.v.b) well worth the comedy value.

Another thing I have noticed with the Mossie regroup, we turn up late nearly all the time.

Do you feel we are falling behind and giving up too easily on a base? I am not sure about you but I fell like the sanc is becomming a new cont for me as I spend so much time there. ( I do not have a problem with it but what do you think? )

Visionaire
Friday, 21st January 2005, 09:57
Was only on for bout 30 min. last night (enough for me to cert gal and send everyone to certain hotdropping death, then tried landing safely at a NC base where I somehow ended up inside the building then blew up :o ). Should be on more tonight. Think we should do more maxes as well. MAX runs against nme backdoors are quite efficient, especially in zergs where u got other players to follow once u've broken through.

I'm not sure bout the vehicles. What's the point of having loads of vehicles defending if one full gal (or a load of mozzies) drops at bd, heads in and rehacks? One of the best ways to hold bases I've seen, is a few of the tr outfits (dunno which) that instead of simply defending the room in front of the cc, deploys troops in the hallways leading there, the cc room and in various other places where people don't expect them to be.

Basically won't the nme just think: wtf, who are these noobs in the vehicles, i'll just bail right here and run in and rehack?

justinalot
Friday, 21st January 2005, 11:45
I mean we just get vehicled out we dont sit in them


Great idea about defending from another room I like it.

Will try that tonight

Come on REB you big idiot get on PS and teach us some of your tactics ;)

Shanks
Friday, 21st January 2005, 12:12
Agreed Justin, in one fight that I was with you guys in... Hossin, the TR did kick us off pretty quickly.
However, there is no need to beat yourself up over it, as they did have over double our pop and there were only 11 of us!

As for opening continents, it is difficult, something we did get quite good at on VS, but the key is to have a even amount of numbers in all fields - support, heavy grunts, max's and lookouts.

AMS's are the key to anything, we used to use 3 ams's, 2 in CY and one at backdoor. Enemy never think to look for 3 AMS's. On an empty continent, the first thing you do is hack out AMS's. get them in place, get your CE down and then go to hack base, destroy tubes, and we used to always get the gen ready. Drop nine boomers round the gen, drop the triggers in the back and all it needs is a jammer nade to destroy.
We used to destroy the gen if things where getting heavy (ie : nme had tubes up, and pushing us back to CC...). By that time, you will have hacked out equipment, and there will be no need by that time for using equipment terminals as its all fighting, so blowing gen at that point gives you a few minutes extra in a battle, and when the NME have a numbers advantage it really does help that hack go through.

The other thing I noticed that could have helped is we had 4 people defending the tower. IMHO the tower is not that important, plenty of CE, maybe one person only, will prevent the NME from coming into the base for maybe 2 mins max, which also helps in teh delay, so instead of having 3/4 people at tower, maybe one person who can also act as lookout, jsut top annoy or delay the tower going, but in most circumstances it will change colour!

Another thing we used to do was have one person on something we named as Combat Air Patrol. Which is a good mossie pilot floating around outside acting as lookout and stopping the hot droppers by picking em off quickly and surely. For this you need a very good pilot, because they can usually prevent nme from getting inside the base quickly, also delaying for a few minutes!

Just a few pointers, that might be worht looking at anyway!

FuSs
Friday, 21st January 2005, 13:57
we used to defend the exterior of a base with tons of AA max and some vehicles and it worked damn well
BUT a few weeks after our new tactic BFRs came out.

wonder what ? - this tactic doesnt work anymore.

Nikodemus
Friday, 21st January 2005, 14:15
We have done exterior defense before (pre-BFR)

To break it down in detail :
Say we hack Tarqaq on empty Ceryshen. Everything is planned and -EVERYBODY- gets their specific tasks before we even leave sanc.

20 guys.

1 sparrow looking N
1 sparrow looking S
1 sparrow looking W
1 sparrow looking E
(if we have the numbers, add NE, NW, SE, SW - seriously)
1 sparrow on the tower looking towards base
1 sparrow on the tower looking away from the base

20 mines on each gate, 10 mines on backdoor, mines on all doors leading into base, mines on top and bottom door of all the staircases leading from CY to walls, mines on the catwalks, mines on the airpads ... i.e. : 100 mines minimum, 200+ preffered.

2 AMSs in CY, 1 backup outside. All three AMS drivers remain close to their AMSs.
Their primary jobs :
- defending their AMS
- getting a new one if it is destroyed
- repairing/defending nearest sparrow

Other than that, there's ...
- tower crew (such as SPLATTER + a.med/a.hack/engi grunt)
- 2 x gate crew (MA/AV/REXO grunts to help stop anything coming through the gates)
- exterior backdoor crew (1 or 2 thumpers above the BD)
- interior backdoor crew (similar to tower crew)
- CC crew (2 SPLATTERS + a.med)
- a few roaming ghost a.meds/engineers who first and foremost fix the sparrows.

So basically, it comes down to :
"Since 90% of all the enemies that can be arsed getting here will have no other vehi cert than autowin1 or autowin2, we'll put up a shitload of AA and stuff that kills agiles, and win!"

The obvious problem now are the BFRs. Contrary to all other vehicles they can do one thing : stand 100+ meters from the base and nuke our troops and sparrows of the walls.

Dealing with them, in that situation is a bit troublesome. Guess the best I can come up with is to have a 5-man reaver squad standing by in the nearest warpgate who can go in together all at once and nuke them ...
... or maybe have a fully loaded deli ride by them at full speed and unload 4 jammer/deci grunts - but even then a flight variant can jump away.
... or maybe have three enforcers standing by in the CY
... but all of that adds quite a few people to the equation.

Shanks
Friday, 21st January 2005, 14:17
Suppose a lot of it is to mix it up a bit really, do the same thing everytime, then the NME knows better ways of defeating you.

Used to happen a lot when fighting Vietcong back in the day, Bio lab defence from there was awesome, you can gaurantee on your mortgage that there would be peeps in the implant room, and the thumper spam was very very difficult to get past!

Always great battles though, same with Amp Stations, those ar the 2 bases where you really can defend with lower numbers.

Nikodemus
Friday, 21st January 2005, 14:24
The TR ROXO and Co can totally deal with us when we drop as Mossies.
I'd say the obvious problem is the nobhamma. I've played some with the TR air cav boys and the biggest difference I see between them and us is that ...

- they have two guys next to each other pointing their gun at the same target (ROXO and Kendo really are bloody good at not rushing for the kill, but making sure they go in together and create a 2on1 when they can)
- we have two guys rushing full speed towards the target, one in front of the other, so only one can fire at a time ... which also gets us split up real quick

I see this all the time since I'm the fool with the gauss rifle ... me and a guy with a jackhammer inside a base. We come upon an enemy - the guy with the jackhammer obviously does what he can to close the distance and make the most of his gun.
The result is a 1on1 between my mate and the enemy while I can't get a shot off 'till my mate falls.
And if he ends up losing the fight and I then finish the enemy off, then half the time his dead body is in some annoying position where I'm too likely to get killed from a blind angle while reviving.

Daymare
Friday, 21st January 2005, 14:27
jhs are HEAVY ASSAULT WEAPONS which means that they are complementary weapons to the medium assault weapon. IMO it should be more rare than the SA weapons (if you don't have both, like I do)

My point is that niko is right, the noobhammer is a problem when it comes to longer distances, which is what makes hding in mossies very evil..
it works with mcgs because then you have an all around weapon.

I suppose what im trying to say is that you should try certing sa instead of ha for a while, they are much better support weapons.

Shanks
Friday, 21st January 2005, 14:39
I wouldnt necessry re-cert SA instead of HA, as you really do need a mix of both. SA for spamming outside of a room or hallway, because if NME get insdie room, SA is dangerous to both friendlies and enemies in same room.

I like the idea of mines, as it does slow the NME down, Niko, you are very right Roxo and Kendo do what you describe very well indeed. Boomers on doors work.

Although Niko, I agree with what you are saying about 4 sparrow's and 3 people guarding there ams's with a tower crew, but that can only be done if you have the numbers. Even so, you are looking at 10 people to defend those parts, if they get broken you are going to need at least that number maybe even more looking inside.

I feel the majority of people defending should be looking after the CC area, as well as the spawns/gen as they are IMHO< the most important factors on a base resecure. Get the tubes up and you can keep a wave of troops hitting the defenders, as long as adv hacker stays to hack terminals of course!

I do enjoy these discussions though!

Nikodemus
Friday, 21st January 2005, 14:51
Shanks;
The whole point in the exterior defense is to defend the CY and backdoor, thus not allowing any enemies to get into the base in the first place. Also, this gives us the opportunity to actually use AMSs since they are covered from the air cav whores.

Given the fact that mosquito/air cavalry are as extremely sickishly overpowered as they are, at least 90% of all the enemies that care about resecs (i.e. the killwhores and CR 5s) have it. Just think about it ... make a list of the top 100 "resecurers" for any faction and you'll realize every single one of them relies 100% on his mosquito/reaver.

By setting up 6+ sparrow MAXs we put them in a situation where they can't even get close enough to hotdrop over the base. They'll spawn back in the nearest base and think "But ... but ... but ... my mossie can't handle this situation!". Since that's the first time it's happened for them in 6+ months they'll have no clue what to do whatsoever.

(oops trailed off, back on topic...)

Sparrows makes hotdropping from mossies really hard to get done, at least if we have enough of them (6 is really the absolute minimum - we've done it with 12 before and STILL GOT AIRZERGED!).

Mines on the gates means any ground vehicles (which we usually won't see any of anyways) will have trouble getting in + there's grunts over the gates making sure it ain't happening.

The grunts up on the walls keep the sparrows going, take care of any that actually do manage to hotdrop etc.

Backdoor is well covered from both inside and outside.

That leaves the front door ... which should be inaccesible (and mined). And the top doors, which should be even more inaccesible (and mined).

But yep, it does take numbers and coordination, that's for certain.

justinalot
Friday, 21st January 2005, 15:21
Niko when you comming back on line??

Wouid really like to start a base defence from Outside. As I know it works I have joined in a couple of times before the BFR's turned up

Daymare
Friday, 21st January 2005, 15:27
The outdoor defence is absolutely awesome. with the right numbers that is.. the only thing that needs to be changed is that we need one or two bfrs in the courtyard ourselves.. one with av av and one that could have aa just to be ewul.

Shanks
Friday, 21st January 2005, 16:43
Niko

I do fully agree on the AA cover, makes it easier if these agile, air whores are not droping on their intended targets, plus leaves our AMS's clear to do what they are supposed to do too.

Im liking the sound of that the outside defense with that much air cover, would be interesting to see how it faired.

Also with regards to the indoors defence, I was actually imagining it with the lasher (oops), BD defence is easy with that weapon, slightly harder with jackhammer, so SA would be very necessary in that intance!

I am cool to try any kind of defence offence and always willing to change the few certs I have to assist!

Hincey
Friday, 21st January 2005, 17:02
Also with regards to the indoors defence, I was actually imagining it with the lasher (oops), BD defence is easy with that weapon, slightly harder with jackhammer, so SA would be very necessary in that intance!




For NC IMO best BD defence weps that we got are gauss and thumper but mainly just gauss.

We've tried it in the past with gen defence and BD defence. The most memorable occasion was during the first event (that we pwned both the TR and VS completly :D ) on cyssor.

The only base we had was Gunuku there was a full NC recall cos the TR had the mono completly camped and there was a new mono spawned on a different cont. RL volenteered to defend Gunuku. Which we did for long enough for the NC zerg to run the mono home on the other cont then come back and help us. They zerged the mono with vans and somehow managed to get in inbase.

Think i'm right in sayin it was the one that Daymare got robbed of the glory of bringing the mono home at the front door :D

We must have defended Gunuku for about 45mins -1 hour mainly just using Gauss with a couple of ppl spamming with thumpers.


Sry or going off at a bit of a random angle with the story just remembered it :p


Gauss + Thumper for teh w1n !!!!!!!11!1oneone

justinalot
Friday, 21st January 2005, 18:40
:D :D :D :D :D That really was the best moment in PS I can remember.

I was not in RL then and we went off to capture new MONO it was in fact the CR5's who brought the MONO home it was an awesome moment

Nikodemus
Friday, 21st January 2005, 18:46
@justin:
I'm toying with the fought of not subbing for a little while, actually. But I might change my mind :)
I'm at a mates house atm - but suspect once I get home in a few days I should have my VISA card so I can sub if I feel like it.

About weapons ... I think we might want to take a good lock at getting the majority of our grunts to run around in agile with a rocklet + MA.

I'll get around to typing a long post about it later.

NTT
Friday, 21st January 2005, 22:07
The other things we could try is thumpers, most cc have 2 doors put 4 ppl on each door which would make it a pig to get into.I think we have tryed this before with varied success.

Either that or 3 scatter maxs to one grunt who has adv hack/med,eng and that unit would work together as a team .The team who keeps his grunt wins :)