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karkus
Thursday, 14th April 2005, 14:59
as many people have spotted, we have some wild ranging levels in the guild

we have lots of level 60's and lots of lvl 55-59

but from there on down, there is fewer and fewer people

trouble is for those of us who are lower level it can be a bit of a nightmare getting groups, i am not to bad as i am lvl 51 and can just about join some of the higher people

but if your below lvl 45 its nigh on impossible to get a full guild group, therefore they have to use the "lottery" that is a random group

its a shame really, this is due to RL recruiting a ton of people on launch but as the guild got larger less and less recruiting has occured, and most will agree we dont want many more people

what i am hoping for is that soon, alot of the lvl 60's will play more on there Alt char's so once again we will have lower lvl guild groups

my Alt is a lvl 13 Warlock and i was soooo tempted to join a different Guild, one with lots more lower level people.

any idea's how to fix this? do we solve the problem by not recruiting any lower lvl people, but then that does not help the ones already in the guild

and to the 60's , i know sometimes its a pain being asked for help sometimes for a low lvl instance, but some people just want to play with Guildmates and it might be there only option.

more idea's welcome....

Tasie
Thursday, 14th April 2005, 15:29
Agreed. There isn't that many lowlvl ppl active in the guild. I think the alts are starting to get off the shelves soon tho, as many hits the big 60.. I dunno, but at least I think so.

Shadowkraft
Thursday, 14th April 2005, 16:39
I consider myself to be pretty active, level 25, slowly increasing but I play pretty regularly.

I think I'm gonna take the initiative and organise events and stuff myself, no point in moaning about there being no guild activities for the lower classes when I can do it myself!

Talikk
Thursday, 14th April 2005, 18:08
This is why I´ve started to level again now, it´s very boring beeing in my level hearing about all those nice raids and I can´t do a thing because of my low level. 43 atm and I´m going up, hope to be level 50 in a couple of weeks.

faith
Thursday, 14th April 2005, 18:21
mebbe am too busy enjoying meself to worry overmuch about hitting 60 - it cant help but happen one day.... :) mebbe i shud focus on faith more... but dont want it to turn into a 'job'

got cupla lowbie alts - been toying with a druid for a change - lvl 15 now, mostly solo - certainly cant envisage needing some lvl 60 to come help me anywhere with that char..... :p

GuardianAnge1
Thursday, 14th April 2005, 19:23
thank you, somone mentioned it. I have the perfect example.

Now, remember, I'm not saying that it's bad, just very annoying. Last night, around midnight, i came online and needed help with a quest (at my level, just elite) i asked about 3 times over 10 minutes, and the guild chat was completely silent. Then, thinking that noone was online, I checked the guild list and found 25 lvl 60s online and 2 lvl 39/41s. Fair enough, all the lvl 60s were in BRD but still, even during the day, the lvl 55-60 all do raids constantly not helping the lower levels much. Yes, they do sometimes, but not enough to really help out. Now, i'm not saying that I'm a god or anything (even though I am) but I spent a week with neraj doing low level quests to help him out and get him on his feet. I dont see why a few 60s can't take some time off and help us straglers (it's not like they're trying to get to lvl 61 or anything :p)

just a though :)

faith
Thursday, 14th April 2005, 20:30
okay... pls can all th 60's come pl me to 60 too cos am a lazy gimp - and gimme all loot too cos u wont need it will ya? :p

joking ofc ;) hope the cupla good mates I've made in th game would mebbe help me occasionally as needed - like they do :) other than that - think ppl pay their money - use their playtime how they like - this guild IS pretty helpful imho when needed :)

then again... I joined daoc after it'd been around for cupla years - getting to 50 was hard but fun still - managed it a few times with no pl-ing .... so mebbe my attitude is a bit diff :0 - expect nothing... then everything is a bonus :P

Rebel
Thursday, 14th April 2005, 20:41
well i think 90% of us lvl 60's have more than helped our fair share - if we have time to help we do, but remember we dont play this game to child mind :(

while we were gaining lvl we had to random invite, etc... we have spoon fed most of the lower lvl's with loot , gold and help, we never got that so be grateful for what you do, which is more than we did!

Daymare
Thursday, 14th April 2005, 21:24
Bah, I hate to say this... But I agree with rebel.... As a lvl 60, you have not only done your share of the teaming, and soloing, but you have also done MORE than your share of helping and power leveling the lower level players. I am afraid that this game is made so that you will have to solo from time to time :) I am not saying that you should not excpect the lvl 60 players to help you, just accept that they don't always have time =)

Also, I know this was not what you mean Karkus, so it's not directed at you. On the PvP server we have a lot of different lvls, so who ever joins they got somone to play with, however this will change in a month or so, when most players are 50+, and I am going to say the same there as well, soloing is a part of the game, and you will sadly have to live with that :)

Banadan
Friday, 15th April 2005, 08:15
It is not a high level player's job to babysit lower level chars. Meaning that no-one should really think that lvl 60 chars should 'powerlevel' lower level people up to high levels. Most people who are lvl 60 were low levels too not too long ago and went through the same levels with same means as current lower level people. From personal experience I can say - I am lvl 57 atm - that most of the levels/XP I gained comes from soloing (quests) and being in the group with some friends from beta. For example, me, Aresmares, his son Sougamoto, Sharazara and Platina know each other for a while and we always group up as soon as we get online and anyone else of us is online as well. Then we check what quests someone has, and just go do it in most cases.

Sure, we also do things separately when we for example get invites to instances here and there, but all in all there's no miracle or special forces needed to gain the levels: just invite some guildies at your level, who are online, and have a go at it. You don't need a "perfect" group, for most content and XP up to 50's you can very easily at least duo.

As for some instances, then at some point you get to the situation where you want to get to some instance and it may be somewhat tough to go through it at first. The best way is to post a topic here on forums in advance and ask whether and who could help with the instance. There are many higher level guildies who don't mind at all to go to some instance which by it's level may be below their level, but still is a fun area and may even drop something useful. Simply when you ask it in the guildchat in-game a la "OK, now I need to go to Maraudon/Uldaman, who can come?", then if there even is some higher level who would want to help, he/she may already have made plans for the day, agreed with other people. And naturally thet can't help you then even if they want to. However, if they would know this in advance, it would help to plan things like this.

Other then that, the higher level guildies are helping out with other means too. For example, the items given out for free in guild chat. Enchants from guild enchanters, work from other guild crafters. And when time is good and nothing else has been planned, there have been few guild runs to some area or after some mob(s). Basically, to wrap this longwinded post of mine up with a short sentence (what I probably could have done right from the start): higher levels are not supposed to babysit lower levels or powerlevel them, that will ruin the game experience to the lower levels in the first place. However, when higher levels can help, they do help, and with different means, be it a direct help in some instance or with some quest, or 'indirect' help by giving out free items and services to those who need and can use :)

Nyana
Friday, 15th April 2005, 09:31
I am lvl'ing my alt wich is at lvl 31 at the moment and I never had problems with finding random groups, ok I might be a druid and therefor a healer and more in demand, but i think anyone can get a random group if you're up for it, it requires a lot of patience though. When I lvl'd my main character I had to rely most on random groups and often we failed horribly, but by doing random groups you get to know people who you can add on your friend list and team up with them later on. That's how I got to know the very kind people of Scorned actually. I know we are a guild and that we are suppose to get guild groups going on and I really want to help any character from the legion no matter what lvl, but you will find out when you reach lvl 60 a lot of time is spend on wisper-management and a lot of people try to 'claim' you for whatever they're up to :)

Tarlin
Friday, 15th April 2005, 11:25
Well I think this is a subject that I can comment on, I know that theres quite the level difference in the guild and I know that some quests requires either someone to help or a fg, but I can say formyself atleast being a priest that I just cant help anyone who asks, theres not that many high end priests in the game and a soon as I log into the game I start recieving tells from people wanting my help with anything ranging from Deadmines to Scholomance .... and it just gets tirrering to constantly tell people sry I cant, no not now! ... soon! maybe I can help and so on .... its not because I dont want to help peole but with all the people im helping <even level 60's because of the lack of priests> I hardly ever have time to do anything for my own character ....

and 1 thing that can annoy me at times is when a char doing a quest to kill something <none elite> starts asking for help to do it, or when someone lvl 40 asks for help to do a lvl 50 eilte quest ... those things I just dont help with, because I didnt get to 60 to help people PL through quests, I'll gladly help if its something that I know they cant do in 2-5-10 levels! everyone just wants to do the hard quests earlier and earlier because the mentality seems to be that HEY! a lvl 60 will come help us take out this 35 elite at lvl 20

Banadan
Friday, 15th April 2005, 12:08
I especially agree with Tarlin about the quests what the players receive, which is way above their level. You know, sometimes you simply do receive an elite quest, which is 10-15 levels above you. It does absolutely NOT mean that you should be doing that quest ASAP. It simply means that you should level up and do it when you have the appropriate level. It is entirely possible to get Van Cleef kill quest at lvl 13, while Van Cleef is lvl 26 elite. It does not mean that this lvl 13 should head down now, it means that this lvl 13 has to get to lvl 22 and above and then get a group and then go and do it. Or the Princess quest in Arathi, where the last step - which is lvl 50 elite - can be aquired at lvl 40, this also means that level up to, say, lvl 47-48 and then get a group to do it :)

I have pulled some people way below VC quest level through Deadmines, but that's because I had time, wasn't doing anything and thought "What the heck, for old time's sake!". But it is not always like this, heck, I was myself lvl 25 when I finally went down to Van Cleef and smacked him across his skull with my 2H sword! So with those quests simply relax, just because you got 10+ level higher elite quest now, does not mean that you also should do it now. No, it means that you should level up and then do it :)

karkus
Friday, 15th April 2005, 14:41
WOAH GUYS! get off your soapboxes. most of my post had feck all to do with lvl 60's helping lower levels, i just mentioned it at the end

try reading the whole post again, then comment, instead of taking this post away from the original subject

i am talking about maybe recruiting a few lower people, trying to think of ways to help the not so high among us,

christ on a bike, i barely mention 60's helping at the end and u all get defensive

Back to the ORIGINAL point of this thread

perhaps a little more recruiting is needed? lower levels, or perhaps an idea as to when the 60's among you will start playing alt's more? as i am sure u cant raid forever :)

so to u level 60's, relax, take a breath and instead of talking about babysitiing, try to think up idea's to help the lower level people.

Dojun
Friday, 15th April 2005, 14:47
Imo the 60s help lower lvls pretty often. Rebel helped me doing herod and Gnomeregan runs, more lvl 60s im Farrak when I needed some items, Niko did runs with me and some other at Maraudon, me and otherguildies got big help in ST and so on. I say the lvl 60s do a good job helping us lower, but wheni hit lvl 60 i dont wanna run ppl through instances all the time. I want my pala set and other cool items but i will guaranteed help lower lvls also. It feels good to make other ppl happy.

karkus
Friday, 15th April 2005, 14:48
@Nyana, yes i agree, everyone can go find a random group, but most people join a guild to make new friends and group with them, so if ur lvl 40 and join a huge guild (such as our guild) and then realise 90% of the time ur gonna have to find a random group, whats the point of the guild for them?


i dont want help from lvl 60's. most lower level people in the guild dont want or expect help from 60's, they want people in the guild there own level to group with. i am just trying to help but this thread has gone way out of control lol

Fusion
Friday, 15th April 2005, 14:51
Level 15 is the mimimum for the Deadmines quests... :)

My priest alt is level 24 at the moment and hasn't leveled much due to the sheer difficulty of finding a group of players, let alone good ones who have a clue what they are doing... :rolleyes:

If the guild view is "we need more level 60 healers quite desperately", I am quite happy to put Kaldor on hold and make Randor my main character. However if I am going to get him up to a useful level any time soon, I'm going to need quite a lot of help to power-level through quests and instances :)

Flufball
Friday, 15th April 2005, 20:29
Great, so once you get to level 60 you can turn round with a farmer-esq attitude? Wonderful thing isn't it.

Ok, I can understand you not wanting to be working 24/7, thats a completly understandable attitude, but going off and grouping with a few core friends (been raised before) all the time, even to the point where you ignore similar level people, albiet 5-6 levels lower in the guild, is starting to get a bit iffy. Turning round and saying "Just get random groups" is stupid, if the whole point in a guild is ignoring everyone other than your core circle of friends, why do we even have one?

Now, everyone who has been with the legion for some time knows that I have always been against the farmer style of way, and this post should be no suprise to them (They've learned to ignore it), but it seems to be that its worse in WoW, (from the time I played regualy, plus the views I'm hearing from the lower levels) than it ever was in PS, because PS did not rely on levels so much as personal skill.

Whats the point in a guild if once you reach a certian point your going to go off with a few people every night and ignore the rest of the guild? I'm not talking about items or the like here, because the fact that its done by anyone is admirable, but it seems to be that everyone is playing off in their little groups now.

Of course this is just my opinion, and most people know my views on this sort of thing.

Rebel
Saturday, 16th April 2005, 01:04
whats the point in playing a game if you cant do what you want? what help would a lvl 60 be to a lvl 30 in an instance? the lvl 30 would gain no experience of groups, instances or playstyle and would 1) become bored easily with that instance, and then most probably the game, 2) they will have learnt nothing of how to traverse instances in a simular lvl instance making them shitter at higher lvls as they will have little understanding of what is expected.

How farming has anything to do with this ill never know?!? lvl 60 is not the end of the game, there is still ALOT of things to do, for example for me it is to gain better equipment for personal gain, and also to fight higher end raid bosses and for future battle ground runs.

Also i play my alt char and am currently trying to lvl him. so my main point is, just because you want to do something, and nobody else does, dont have a beal, look for the solution in random invites, just because ur in the guild doesnt mean every1 has to bend to your will!

and Karkus, spend more time on the forums and you will realize that topics dont matter, anything goes! :p

Flufball
Saturday, 16th April 2005, 01:08
Also i play my alt char and am currently trying to lvl him. so my main point is, just because you want to do something, and nobody else does, dont have a beal, look for the solution in random invites, just because ur in the guild doesnt mean every1 has to bend to your will!

If you noticed my main point was that it seemed that people where going off in core circles from what I could see, or at least I intended it to be, if it wasn't worded correctly, then its a communication issue on my part, and for that I apologised.

You should know by now that when I get involved in things I tend to get a bit heated, and I should know by now not to post untill I've thought things through, ahh well, hindsight is such a wonderful thing isn't it? :P

Nikodemus
Saturday, 16th April 2005, 02:49
There is an issue with people of various level ranges having trouble finding groups - fully agreed.
But I really don't see any solutions.

We could invite a lot of lower level people - but, well first off I hope we can agree that we do not wish to /1 spam that we're recruiting. We invite people whom we've played with, we invite friends of members and such - but not randoms. Mainly to avoid getting random jerks in =)
Also - inviting a level 30 player, for example, might help out just then. But maybe he's level 30 for the simple reason he doesn't play that much - and then it won't help much. Maybe he's level 30 because he just started playing, just switched servers or whatever - but is actually very active and powerlevelling - and then he'll also be outlevelling others.
That said ... if you, in one of those blasted random groups, meet some cool, well playing, unguilded dude - then by all means feel free to invite the guy.

@Fluff:
There really, seriously is no thingie akin to the PS "farmer" stuff going on. I'm certain I've done at least one instance or raid with as good as all the top 40 level people in the guild over the last week.

Flufball
Saturday, 16th April 2005, 11:53
@Fluff:
There really, seriously is no thingie akin to the PS "farmer" stuff going on. I'm certain I've done at least one instance or raid with as good as all the top 40 level people in the guild over the last week.

Fair enough, I can only comment on what I precive as happening.

faith
Saturday, 16th April 2005, 14:58
oooh we have a Top 40?

think I'm at number 163 on th indie charts this week..... :p

Fusion
Sunday, 17th April 2005, 14:46
I can see both sides of the coin here, being at a level (57) where I am a little too low to join the 60s in raids into Stratholme and Scholomance (or so I am told :p) and struggling to find groups in RL due to few people of my level range.

At the same time, I'm not especially keen in grouping with people who are more than a couple of levels below me as, for the reasons Rebel pointed out, having a high level player along to help with low level quests and instances helps you less than you think. It will not help you to learn how to deal with tougher quests and monsters with a group of your level, which may mean that you will be a liabilty for others once you are ready to do the end game instances (this was what I meant last night when 50kal asked for help, but due to my exceptional ability to type shit without using my brain it came across badly, for which I appologise).

We have discussed in officer chat about setting aside a day or two every now and then to help you guys with the tougher quests that you can't solo (and are having troubles finding pickup groups for), I personally think it is best to see if we can fit it in around our own quests and instance runs, and which I will try to do from time to time.

Talikk
Sunday, 17th April 2005, 16:56
I my self havn´t had that big of a problem to find random groups, the thing is that you cant always trust the ppl in your group.

You meet ppl that have no idea how to play their class, druids that go into bear form and start tanking when they are the only healer, mages that pyroblast everytime their pyro cooldown is done, etc. etc.

If an epic would drop it would be mass rolling and the one that got it would leave the group fast as hell and hearthstone to his town for an example.

I don´t demand help from higher levels and never had, you guys help me enough when answering my questions. The thing is that we lower levels could use some fun too within the guild, mabe a raid on a horde place (no I´m not saying city!).

Btw I´ve never grouped with a single level 60 from the guild and I dont feel I need too right now. I love the feeling when killing a boss with a group totally around your level.

Just some thoughts ;)

Gromagrim
Sunday, 17th April 2005, 19:51
####GOOD IDEA ALERT####

When you do find yourselves in a pick-up group (which by the sound of it must happen constantly) Why don't you target the good players and get them into the Guild?

Any Renegade (or trialist) can suggest players for trials - and I know this is common knowledge due to the amount of your freinds we've invited - So why don't you guys recruit?

It's very tough for a lvl 60 to find good lvl 30s to invite, but simplicity itself for lvl 30s to do the same. I was recruiting at all levels, it wasn't tough, it wasn't complicated, and although yes, I did have my charms and charisma to fall back on, even peons like Rebel have managed to do it

So go,

RECRUIT!

Flufball
Sunday, 17th April 2005, 20:36
####GOOD IDEA ALERT####

When you do find yourselves in a pick-up group (which by the sound of it must happen constantly) Why don't you target the good players and get them into the Guild?

Any Renegade (or trialist) can suggest players for trials - and I know this is common knowledge due to the amount of your freinds we've invited - So why don't you guys recruit?

It's very tough for a lvl 60 to find good lvl 30s to invite, but simplicity itself for lvl 30s to do the same. I was recruiting at all levels, it wasn't tough, it wasn't complicated, and although yes, I did have my charms and charisma to fall back on, even peons like Rebel have managed to do it

So go,

RECRUIT!

Well, it would certiantaly be an end to the BHO image-apperance-syndrome, depending on the personalities, but it would deffiantaly be an influx of decidadaly more dependable people.

karkus
Monday, 18th April 2005, 09:50
am i missing something, wasn't there a thread a couple of week ago talking about the guild being to big and if we need to recruit more,

trouble also is, that new players are likely to make char's on the new servers, and most people i have ever seen in a group are guilded allready, i think most are by the time they hit 30

so we are recruiting then? good to know

Ironman
Monday, 18th April 2005, 10:20
I think you are a bit too fast here Groma. :D

I'd like to add/change your suggestion Groma. Don't get me wrong I agree with your post it just need a little adjustment if you aks me. :D

Don't invite a person after first run. If possible try to do some different stuff with them. You know some instances and some bosses. See how they perform and if you really do belive they are RL material ask them if they would consider joining RL.
If they are in a guild already plz be polite when asking. We don't want to offend other guilds.

karkus
Monday, 18th April 2005, 11:09
i dont think i have ever been in a pick up group at 40+ with a single person thats not guilded. :/

Daymare
Monday, 18th April 2005, 13:40
same here karkus, highest lvl I have seen that hasn't been picked up by BHO wannabes are lvl 30. then again if you really like some people, why not invite them to join our ts/guild raids and see if what guild they like best?

Fusion
Monday, 18th April 2005, 18:07
I saw a lvl 45 shadow specced priest who was unguilded the other day :eek: